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Egypt 18, Us 13, United States 12, Mubarak 11, Cairo 10, Rumsfeld 5, Yemen 5, Obama 5, Hosni Mubarak 4, John Mccain 4, Cnn 3, George W. Bush 3, Cialis 3, Asia 3, Mullen 2, Alexandria 2, Phillips 2, Bush 2, David Gergen 2, India 2,
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  CNN    John King USA    News/Business. John King. Daily  
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    February 3, 2011
    7:00 - 8:00pm EST  

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meter. if i were a betting girl, i would put my chips on the pug. >> don't hurt my dog. >> jeanne moos, cnn. new york. >> that's it for me. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. for our international viewers, world news is next. "john king, usa" starts right now. >> thanks. good evening. more breaking news in the fast moving egyptian political crisis. a defiant message from hosni mubarak who says he doesn't care what the demonstrators are saying. he needs to stay in power. and he tells president obama, he doesn't understand the risks of pushing mubarak to step down now. in cure the regime continue to target journalists and gun fire continues in the streets. pro democracy dmen straightors stand their ground, promising a big push on what they call
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farewell friday to prove president mubarak has no choice but to go. here in washington, the administration stands firm and rejects complaints from other arab allies. >> the egyptian people expect a meaningful process that yields concrete changes. >> some on the right stay white house is wrong but republican senator john mccain not only backs president obama's approach, he passionately takes issue with those who say the best course is for america to prop up egypt's dictator. >> i'm not a starry eyed idealist. i know the nature of war and i think i understand these issues. and i understand the criticalness. for us to be on the side of government that are repressive can never help us. >> the front line of egypt's
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revolution, anderson cooper is live from cairo. on this night we do not have a live image to show our viewers because of the government crackdown and security concerns. can we sadly say tonight that in some ways as we speak, the regime is winning. at least the information war. >> reporter: certainly the information war, they're winning. this has been without a doubt a deliberate crackdown on eyewitnesses to the horror of what is happening. and the world was watching yesterday and today it is very difficult for the world to watch what is happening right now in tahrir square and on the side streets around tahrir square because there's been a systematic effort to silence journal i haves,have, journalis to threaten. it is a completely controlled process. this hand on reporters here, is not just a heavy hand but a hand
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that wield as club or a knife or a gun. and we've today seen the impact of that. >> and because of that, because of the repression of the journalists, not only from cnn and western outlets but egyptians and all over the world. because of that, are we losing a bit of the sense of what's happening? the government did make some concessions, offering to bring people in for more dialogue. making it clear president mubarak's son would not run. do we have a greater sense of what's happening on the streets or how this is being received? the pro democracy folks are even more defiant. >> reporter: i heard the vice president say. that i also heard him say and this struck, you know, a knife in the heart of any reporter who is here on the ground now. he said he was blaming the satellite news channels for some sort of foreign conspiracy. part of foreign enemies. and that sends a message to
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elements on the street to target foreigners. not just westerners but others from other middle eastern countries. not just reporters but foreigners. when i heard him say that, this is a man who chooses his words very, very carefully. this is a man who has run the intelligence services here for a long time. this is a man who is very thoughtful and smart. i found that to be a chilling message and an ominous one. >> i think that's a perfect way to put it. a chilling message and an ominous one. remember, anderson will be with us at 10:00 in the east. let's move on to more reporting in the crisis. egypt's new vice president invited the outlaw muslim brotherhood into the dialogue about political reforms. he said flatly, president mubarak's san gamal will not run in the next election. but the message is president mubarak must go first.
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then maybe there can be a dialogue. nick is in egypt. it is hard at the moment to see any opening for a breakthrough. are you getting a sense, are there open, obvious tensions among egyptian population? >> reporter: absolutely. on the street corners here, you see people arguing. normal people, not people out protesting but arguing among themselves about what they've seen happen in cairo. the violence there, whether they should continue the demonstrations. whether they should stop people you talk to here, some of them say they were out in the anti-mubarak demonstrations say enough is enough. they should stop. others, the activists say no, we should continue. i went to talk to the push thormen today. you would think the fishermen would be at least maybe a moderate voice in all of this. but then so angry with the protesters who they say have been destroying the economy. destroying the image of egypt. they eventually got angry with us because of what they're
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hearing on the state television about foreign interference in the country. so these fishermen who weren't even out protesting. we went to talk to them. they told us they supported president mubarak. that's the indication of the tensions here. the passions are rising up so much that it is not just in the demonstrations. it is dividing this city. >> departure friday, farewell friday. what should we be looking for in the next 12 to 24 hours in egypt? and could it be the tipping point? >> reporter: it could be. it is very, very difficult to tell. i think it has become, as we've seen, so volatile and difficult to predict. i think a key thing here is what will the pro mubarak supporters do? particularly in alexandria. will they come for confrontation? because there will be on friday, much bigger anti-mubarak protests. it will give pro mubarak faction
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many more people to go after and get into big violent confrontation. they haven't managed that so far in alexandria. we've seen what it looks like in cairo. i don't know if you can see over my shoulder. there were checkpoints on the main road behind me there. they haven't been there over the past few nights. they're there because they are protecting, appear to be protecting the main mosque where the main anti-mubarak demonstration will begin in about 12 hours time. they are clearly already putting their defenses out to stop those pro mubarak supporters getting close to where they're going to gather. that's exactly where the clashes began a week ago on friday after friday prayers. everyone here, the anti-mubarak supporters know what they potentially face here tomorrow. it will be a big day. not just here but across the country. >> we'll stay in touch with nic. thank you very much. because we don't have those live images today because of the
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crackdown, we want to give you a better pension of cairo using the magic wall. here's the nile river. a wide shot of cairo. i want to zoom in a little closer. it is here in tahrir or liberation square, this is where it all started a little oh a week ago. this is where most of the demonstrators were gathering. in the early days, this was relatively peaceful. let's look at the early youtube videos put up at the seep when it was still relatively peaceful. you see mubarak out. there that one of the very peaceful demonstrations. as things went on, we know the army came in. some pro mubarak forces came in as well. i want to tip this up for you to get some perspective. a lot of that was playing out by the museum. then it was yesterday when we saw everything turn. the mood turned and this happen in the streets.
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we'll get this to work here. in it comes. people demonstrating peacefully. boom. >> people on horseback charging in. pro mubarak demonstrators are horses. people have been standing around peacefully and they come through. they have sticks, they're scattering people. this was part of the stunning images yesterday with all the violence. in addition to all our correspondents who have been here, so many people filing i-reports. uploading video. sending in their video. one of these is an egyptian who calm in to visit friends for a holiday. he was over here. tahrir square over here. about to come to a pro demonstration. he was up on the bridge. he looks down, sees that van. the green van is a police van from the interior must not industry. i'm going to stop this. this could be disturbing. the green van is a police van.
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there's a crowd gathered here about to go to a demonstration. the van speeds up and goes through. so that is a glimpse there of the tensions you see in cairo. we'll be watching right here tomorrow. we'll be watching as all this plays out. as they say, tomorrow. departure friday. farewell friday could be decisive. let's get some important perspective. i want to start with this interview. president mubarak has done with our friend. he said he is fed up, tired. he would love to leave is what he says. he that he has to stay for the good of his country. he said this to president obama. you don't understand the egyptian culture and what would happen if i step down now. >> well, it is obviously nonsense in the sense that president obama is not the only person suggesting that he step down. there are hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of egyptians making that case. so do all those egyptians not understand egyptian culture?
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if mubarak had said a year ago that all these things, everyone would have hail him as a great leader who was willing to bring his sgricountry into a differen era. he has been dragged kicking and screaming. he did not want to leave. he made signal to everybody including his inner curl that he intended to run again at 82 and in poor health. now he is reluctantly realized that he can't do that. it is very important to remember, it is not president obama who is alone in suggesting he step down. it is millions of egyptian who's presumably understand egyptian culture just as well as mubarak does. >> an interesting point. i don't know whether to call this denial, delusional or what. if he was not going to returning he certainly had not conveyed that to the egyptian people. and most around him believed fully that he was preparing to run again. but he said in this enter vurk a, that he was not going to run.
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and b, i never intended to run again. i never intended gamal to run after me. it sounds like a man twisting the facts in his retreat. >> if that was the characters ted most bizarrely planned suck sessi secession six months from. now he said he was not going to ruchbl he said his son wasn't going to ruchbl he did not appoint a vice president until seven or eight days ago. who was going to run? the whole thing sounds very weird and it allows us for the first time on cnn to use a horrible pun. denial is not a river in egypt. >> it is a horrible pun but perhaps an appropriate pun at this moment. what does it tell us about him and about this international stand-off? his own people want him to go, as you rightly note. but president obama, and many voices from around the world have that we've reached a point where you need to go.
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he is at the palace, he is surrounded by tanks and his own people and he said you don't understand. i can't go. >> i think he and the army are making a calculation that they can outlast the protesters. you have to remember. egypt is a military dictatorship. knits citizen clothes. mubarak wears citizen clothes. the vice president wears civilian clothes. mubarak was the head of the air force. so the military is deeply invested in this regime themselves get enormous benefits and perks and they don't want to see some kind of rapid transformation that might threaten all their, the goodies they get from this regime. so they are trying to manage a kind of process in which, fine, mubarak leaves. they have controlled elections. but not an actual change of regime if you see what i mean.
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a change of personalities. an opening up of the system but within the same framework. i think their bet is they can outlast the protesters. after a while people have to go back to work. they have to put food on the table. and we'll see. it may be in some senses, an accurate calculation. friday will be the d-day in that sense. if the protesters can really come out in force on friday, that will be an extraordinary sign in the face of this violence. the face of the fact this has been nine days. they are at a standstill. that will be an extraordinary show of strength. don't forget there will be protests in jordan, yemen, perhaps in syria. this is taking on a larger life than just what's happening in tahrir square in choir. >> as always, thanks. as he just noted, this is spread throughout the region. what should president obama do now? the president's leverage and we'll go live to yemen.
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the only correspondent in yemen joins us from the capital city of sanaa. you were out there with demonstrators today. what a remarkable scene in another country with normally a rather autocratic regime. >> reporter: we were out on the streets early thursday. at least 13,000 demonstrators next to sanaa university, out there clearly emboldened to be out there by the events they're seeing going on in tunisia. they were expressing solidarity with the people. they were calling for the ouster of yemeni president even though yemeni president made concessions and understand he would not seek re-election in 2013 or seek to install husbais as the next president of yemen. these people want to see change now and better rights and jobs for the yemeni people. to that end there was another
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demonstration just a few miles down the road. pro government demonstrators. they were rallying around the president. they were saying they loved the president. they were happy with the president and there has been a concerted effort by the government of yemen when there have been anti-demonstrations the past couple weeks. >> live for us in yemen. we'll keep in touch in the days ahead. we'll watch how the demonstrations going as they continue. and this one is huge to the president of the united states who worries about yemen because of the weak government, the poverty and a very active al qaeda in the arabian peninsula there. as the president worries about that, what are the obama administration's options? good questions for nick burns, the former secretary of state, and senior analyst david gergen who has advised four u.s. presidents. i want to start with you. president mubarak said today that president obama doesn't get it pex doesn't understand egyptian culture. that he can't step down quickly. so now what is the next move for
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the united states? >> things have gotten a lot more complicated for president obama in the u.s. today because of the government pushback, president mubarak's interview. what the government has been doing to shut down information, to accept wrought these two warring groups in tahrir square and to get people off the streets. it looks to me like a government that intends on staying quite a while. that's not good news in my judgment for the rest of the world or for the egyptian people. i still don't believe the egyptian government really has control of the streets. it may not, mubarak may not have control of his own government. it seems the security forces are acting in a did you have way than the military. that could be very dangerous for them down the line. >> secretary of state clinton came out today, to this point, mubarak seem to be using the dictators' rule book.
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talk t attack the journalists. >> we also condemn in the strongest term attacks on peaceful demonstrators, human rights activists, foreigners, and diplomats. freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, and freedom of the press are pillars of an open and inclusive society. >> but those are great words, david. but egypt is not an open and inclusive society at the moment. and it begs the question beyond those words, what leverage does the administration have? >> well, it has certainly the leverage of the international community. and i think what has been surprising, john, is that mubarak has already delegitimized among millions of people at home. and his best hope of staying in power is to have the international community rally around and say he ought to be left to stay in power until he has an orderly transition. now he is angering people in the international communicate.
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he is losing his legitimacy. so i think he is becoming increasingly isolated. it does seem to me, nic burns was right as he is so often president obama has handled this so often. i think it is time for a lot of quiet diplomacy behind the scenes to get a coalition of nations, to put appreciate our president mubarak, to put pressure on mubarak will call off the thugs and get the negotiations going right away. so that the violence can be calmed down and there can be some assurance of an orderly transition. >> and diplomacy has been your business. how do they do that? they're working with the u.k. and germany. how do they deal with this? we're told from the region, from arab nations in the region, they're getting reports from the state department. stop being so publicly critical of president mubarak and stop demanding that he go. >> this crisis is very fast-moving. it is into a new phase just this
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afternoon and evening. suddenly the obama administration is faced with a very complex challenge. it continues to have to identify, in my judgment, with the people, the peaceful protesters in the streets, to affirm freedom and affirm a future of reform. but it has to retain, as david gergen said, on a quiet basis enough to motivate them. influence them, push them behind the scenes. and i think president obama has been very skillful over the last ten days in doing that. it is much more difficult now because president mubarak has come out and said some very tough thing about president obama. >> he says quiet diplomacy. it should be public? should he join a relative few who are saying you need change now. mubarak, you need to go or else. or else being you lose the military assistance and other economic aid. >> i -- it is a very hard call, john. i'm not sure i know the answer.
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nick is the professional diplomat here. my sense tells me from working various presidents, as long as the administration makes it very clear that they're on the side of democracy and freedom for the people, then he ought to work quietly on the way to actually do it. he ought to be wok behind the scenes. if he loses leverage by conducting a public crusade against mubarak, he is much better off to work other w other nations to bring an international coalition to bear on getting this thing into a good channel so we have a good outcome. the last thing -- mubarak is warning about chaos. there is a risk of chaos here and we have to be very, very careful about how we do this. >> i appreciate your insights, gentlemen. so if the administration can't convince president mubarak to go, kit convince the egyptian army to push him out? when we come back, a conversation about that. ♪
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in this week's "time" magazine, joe klein sees an important lesson allowing concerns over security and oil trump worries about democracy and human rights.
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he writes, a smarter foreign policy would quietly promote a careful transition. the best way to do this is to latch on to institutions, not individual leaders in the developing countries we seek as allies. sadly, the most reliable institution to latch on to, train and equip and support is often the army. joe joins us now. an husband, toal lesson but also an urgency of the moment. they are hoping to say go. we don't see any evidence of that in the immediate term. >> we don't know. a pretty haunting night. isn't it? i keep on remembering images of tanks in the streets and other places. just before tiananmen, we saw the image of the tank that wouldn't run over the protester. yet when they kicked out the journalists as the egyptians are doing today, the tanks went into tiananmen square and we still don't know how many people were killed that night. on the other hand, in moscow, in
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1991, the tanks wouldn't fight. boris yeltsin declared his independence from the soviet union on top of an old army tank. we don't know yet what the egyptian army will do tomorrow. obviously it is a military addiction taughtor ship as fareed zakaria said before. >> so as someone who has had that top security clearance and knows how these conversations in this private, what is secretary gates, what is murl mullen saying, at least stay out of this. how exactly blunt are those conversations? >> well, admiral mullen has indicated, it is not his case to tell president hosni mubarak. the egyptian army has said they won't act against the protesters, they may find themselves in a very uncomfortable position come
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tomorrow. not being aggressive against the protesters may not be enough. because if the ministry of interior and other thugs, pro mubarak thugs, talk the protesters, the army will be put in the position. are they willing to protect them? that's a step much further down the step to force mubarak from powerful i think they'll confront that issue tomorrow. >> as we confront tomorrow, people are thinking what did we do or did we do anything that complicated this mess. you cannot say got us into this mess. you make the point. don't attach yourself to leaders or institutions. george w. bush said that, saying his own father had made the must take of putting oil and security above human rights. will we forget it? >> but then george w. bush put oil and security above human rights. there was a period where bush, condoleezza rice made a famous speech in 2005 in cairo calling on the government to reform. then we didn't do anything about it. i think the obama administration has been a little more discreet
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about this. but now it is pretty far in the field. and you just have to wonder what will happen if mubarak manages to see this through? how will our relations with egypt exist until the election? and even then, if chaos is a problem now, mubarak could say next september. well, chaos is a real problem. i have to stick around a little while longer. >> as he lays out the pretty stark and not terribly optimistic choices, is the administration in private, doubted they're being clear or vague about the aid? you don't do what we need, you don't get your $1.3, $1.4 billion. >> you'd better be careful about how you play card. which is part of the reason the republican and democratic administrations have had this alliance with hosni mubarak. if you play lever and you threaten the military now with removing aid, they may design to throw their lot in with hosni mubarak and be more aggressive. it is not clear if you played
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that card, the impact it has on the morale of the egyptian military. >> one other point if i could. that i think the important conversations here are not happening at the mullen level. they're happening at the level of the generals and colonels who spend time together at plays like the army war college, carlisle, pennsylvania, and ft. leavenworth, kansas. throws personal relationships that exist and are very strong. it may well be the egyptian military and those american generals are having conversations now about what the best course of action would be. in an informal, personal way. >> excellent insights. we'll watch how that plays out. thanks for coming in. still to come, some on the right warn the fall of mubarak to have a global reach. a legitimate fear or fear mongering? first, john mccain mccain rates the president's handling of his biggest international crisis.
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if you're just joining us, here's what you need to know about the crisis in egypt. the united states and other nations condemn the increasing attacks on journalists in egypt. live pictures in cairo impossible tonight because of that crackdown on.
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capitol hill, the senate is expected to pass a resolution sponsored by john mccain and john kerry calling on president mubarak to immediately begin a transition to a democratic position. i spoke to kerry who said there would be chaos. >> i think that either rightly or wrongly, he has not allowed the people of egypt to express their democratic yearnings and give them the rights that they as human beings deserve. and so if we could get a transition government in place that is representative, not only of the army but also other democratic elements within egyptian society, then i think there is a good opportunity to have this violence subside. the longer that this transition
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is delayed, i think that the likelihood of furthest congratulations and violence is increased. >> should the united states be saying, we will cut off aid if you don't do this now? should the united states be saying we will suspend the planned arms sale if you don't do this now? >> i think we should wait on all of that. there is always time for that. i think that one of our strongest influences here is the egyptian military. we have very close military to military relationship with the egyptians. they've been to our war colleges. our command and staff colleges. and they understand, i think, the situation rather well. i would rather not issue threats at this time until we have exhausted all other methods of persuasion. i'm not sure that wouldn't back fire, to tell you the truth. >> president mubarak's team is saying the united states is
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meddling here. some of the other governments of the region who are watching nervously are a bit nervous themselves, that the united states at least publicly is playing too much of a role here. how is the president handling this in your view? >> i think the president is handling this situation well under the most difficult kind of circumstances. we are paying a price for historic neglect of human rights, which we have traditionally stood for throughout our history. our advocacy of it in the name. i think order time that doesn't work. and i am keenly aware of the dangers of radical islamic influence in everyone of these countries. it is a huge danger. the muslim brotherhood in egypt in my view is a great throeat t democracy. anybody who advocates shari'a
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law. not to mention the implications as far as israel is concerned. >> there are some who have a different view. i want you to listen to the former speaker of the house who says, a, the united states is losing the war and b, he thinks the president could make it worse. >> we're losing the war because there are schools around the planet teaching hatred. the network of terrorists is bigger, not smaller. there is a real possibility that in a few weeks, if we're unfortunate, egypt will join iran and join lebanon and join gaza and join the thing are mapping are extraordinarily dangerous to us. >> do you see it as negatively as that? a, are we losing? and b, do you see egypt as part of a growing problem in the middle east? >> the former speaker drew a send you are ao which is entirely possible. our job is to act that it
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doesn't unfold that way. and i don't see how it hurts us to stand up for the things that are the very principles of our existence. we believe it applies to everyone in the world. not just those of us in the united states. i'm not a starry-eyed idealist. continuing nature of war and it i understand these issues. and i understand the criticalirn t ychb. for us to be on the side of governments that are repressive in the long run will not help us achieve our goals. >> you ran against president obama in 2008. you had a sit-down with him in the white house. can you sure a a little reflect on what that most was like and the evolution of a relationship that turned frosty after the election. especially in the early days of the administration. and perhaps seems to be warming at least a bit now. >> well, it is not an usual you've of warmth or lack of
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warmth. i strongly disagreed with the health care reform, the stimulus package, the spending. those i felt passionately about. i don't think it ever interfered with my personal relationship with president obama which frankly developed while he was here in the united states senate. now i think that, and i say this with respect, the president has shifted in a number of ways as a result of the november election, which i think is appropriate. and we have a common interest. common values. and you believe there are areas we can work together for the good of the country. >> was this a p, let's have a n chapter, let's try to have a very productive personal dialogue? >> the president of the united states doesn't have a lot of time for socializing. and i think going through some issues that there are every prospect that we could work together on under the right circumstances. and i look forward to that
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opportunity. >> we'll go back through some of the iraq war debate the release of secretary rumsfeld's book. and you might have a better relationship with president obama than you do with secretary rumsfeld. he talks in the book, known and unknown, that you have a hair trigger temper. and what secretary rumsfeld said, a propensity to schiff his positions to appeal to the media. >> my only response is that i was over in iraq enough to know that we were losing. and american lives were being lost. there is nothing more important than. that i came back and we had literally pitched battles on the issue of a surge. and he steadfastly opposed it. he did not support such a thing. he didn't believe we needed additional troops. that was a huge bone of contention between myself and secretary rumsfeld. and fortunately, after the election of 2006, the president decided to replace him. we had the surge and we've achieved a significant degree of success in iraq which we
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wouldn't have under secretary rumsfeld. i respect secretary rumsfeld and his service to the country. it was nothing personal. >> but you make the position today that history proved john mccain right. >> i think so. i think it proved david petraeus right. >> senator john mccain, we appreciate your time. next, some on the right say a global reach. legitimate fear or fear mongering? ♪ when the parts for the line ♪ ♪ come precisely on time ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ a continuous link, that is always in sync ♪ ♪ that's logistics ♪ ♪ there will be no more stress ♪ ♪ cause you've called ups, that's logistics ♪
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we at cnn could not be more
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proud of our global reach and our remarkable journalists. i make that observation because where you get your news sadly kim pact what news you get. especially how that news is analyzed. in a conversation with bob from the brooking institution, i wanted to get their take on how we got here and where we're heading. people have watched this play out in recent days. it is a minority. but there have been some critics of the obama administration who were critical before this happened who were saying somehow what is happening in the streets of egypt has a seed in what the president said in 2009 when he went to cairo. >> you must maintain your power through consent. not coercion. you must respect the rights of minorities and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise. you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political
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process above your party. without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy. >> there is no question you could listen to that part of the speech and take that as a direct rebuke to president mubarak and others in the middle east. and the president said absolutely. that's what we meant by that speech. when criticize them they say it's not all that different from what president george w. bush said. >> 60 years of western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the middle east did nothing to make us safe because in the long run stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty. >> is there an honest debate about what our presidents, presidents, plural, have said, did they follow up? how hard did they push or is that just instant retreat into politics like in many crises? >> to my mind both president
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bush and president obama are absolutely right and if this had some effect on -- in the middle east and the arab world and tunisia and egypt in encouraging people to demand the kinds of freedoms that we enjoy the united states and europe and asia and elsewhere then that's great. the problem i would say in both cases and both president bush and president obama was there was not follow-up in terms of policy and in egypt where both michele and i have been looking at policy closely over the past year, after that rhetoric, there was not enough pressure on the mubarak regime to take the necessary steps, for instance, in the most recent parliamentary elections to open up to the kind of political space that might have prevented this current crisis from erupting. if mubarak had been more willing to make some concessions then we wouldn't be necessarily in this crisis right now. >> i think they were articulating the right principles. the bush administration tried with egypt specifically for a few years. i would say from 2002 to 2005,
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they pressed them a bit and they got a few things out of it. the elections egypt held in 2005 were probably the freest egypt ever held but then the bush administration began to back off and i think the obama administration was quite late in pursuing this agenda and fairly timid. >> what's next? if you watch some of the news coverage and analysis there are some who say their biggest fear if this happens fast that you could have a radical islamist government seize power in egypt then have a ripple effect. >> a risk of a radical government taking over in egypt, no, i don't think that's a high risk. the risk that the muslim brotherhood will get a reasonably large share of the next government, that is a risk, and one of the reasons that i think it's important actually to move quickly is to try to prevent that from happening to some extent because if the secular force, the liberal forces in egypt feel that they
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have the opportunity to move toward a free and fair democratic election in which they'll have a chance, they're more likely to go in a peaceful direction and a nonradical direction but the longer this drags out, the greater the possibility that that -- even that the more moderate segment of the population will becomal callized. >> this is from a rival news network. it is something that i would describe, this is my opinion, as out there a little bit. it's glenn beck yesterday standing in front of a map and essentially saying egypt will fall, the islamists will cease power and there will be a domino effect but glenn beckon jekts that it could go further. let's listen. >> what is happens? you move over to asia and grab -- once this domino starts to fall and the muslims start to see, oh, my gosh, we might from a caliphate and have islam imposed in sharia law over all the globe, you start to lose all of asia.
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>> michele, to you first, any scenario in which you see anything like that possibly coming out of this? >> i think the muslim brothers are going to play a role in the political future of egypt and i -- but i don't see any kind of a radical islamist takeover. let's not forget. egyptian army are there and the egyptian judiciary are there. there are some pillars of the system that are not fallen and will no necessarily fall with mubarak. they show no signs of falling so there are institutions and so forth in egypt to prevent a radical takeover, but, you know, i would also say this, i mean, what's the alternative scenario? you know, what should the united states be doing? are we supposed to -- you know, this train is moving down the track, change is happening in egypt. should we throw ourselves in front of it just to try to stop the muslim brothers from getting into parliament? i mean it's just a totally unrealistic scenario. the idea that somehow the united
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states should stop political change and should do what it can to deny political rights and human rights to 85 million egyptians, you know, because we're concerned about the muslim brotherhood. >> is what you just saw, is that alarmist, extreme? >> it's panic among goering of the worst kind. it's not the first time in american history that kind of panic among goering has played well on tv or in the press. but i hope that people who have some sobriety and some good sense won't look at a map like that and think that india, which i noticed was colored in, was about to become part of an islamic caliphate. that shows a profound ignorance of india as well as the rest of the world. we need to be intelligent about how to go forward and not be guided about panic about some global islamic takeover and, in fact, that kind of panic leads to the worst kind of policies. >> bob kagan, michele dunne,
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appreciate your insights. to the magic wall to see what the world is saying about the crisis in egypt. colace capsr helps ease straining to make going easier. try colace capsules for effective comfortable relief from occasional constipation. save $3 right now. go to getconstipationrelief.com.
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let's take a look at some of global headlines about the egypt political crisis. this is a state-run newspaper pro-mubarak. millions go out supporting the mubarak regime. demonstrations and marches in cairo. this another arabic newspaper in saudi arabia. washington criticizes mubarak. asks for immediate change. in